XBMC Media Server

[Horribilas]

Hi guys, I love XBMC but am pretty new to the whole concept of NAS. I have read a little bit here but tying it all together is proving difficult for me.

I would like to build a FreeNAS server that will stream via ethernet to my Netgear D6300 and on to multiple Intel NUC HTPC's running OpenELEC via AC Wireless Cards. I expect the server to run 24/7 and would possibly open up an external VPN gate later on.

The case I want to build in is the Node 304:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_1055&products_id=25885

I also want to run two WD 3TB HDD's initially with the ability to buy 2 or more later on:
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_344&products_id=20885

I would like to know firstly what board, cpu and ram would suit and also what configuration would suit such a device?

Thank you.

 

[Yatti420]

Lots of hardware threads around.. You wont have much redundancy in a mirror.. Why not raidz2? You can run a centralized xbmc library if you want on your freenas box.. All XBMC clients (identical clients) will have the same setup etc..

 

[Horribilas]

Lots of hardware threads around.. You wont have much redundancy in a mirror.. Why not raidz2? You can run a centralized xbmc library if you want on your freenas box.. All XBMC clients (identical clients) will have the same setup etc..

I am looking for suggestions as to what cpu and ram could handle serving two or three HD movies to my HTPC's simultaneously.

 

[Horribilas]

The centralized xbmc library certainly sounds interesting. I am not too concerned about data loss just yet as it will just be movies and I will back them up on a separate device. Is there a certain configuation that will serve my data faster to the network, also is there a way to mount an SSD internally not utilising one of the six slots.

 

[ser_rhaegar]

Is there a certain configuation that will serve my data faster to the network

While a mirror will be faster than RAIDZ2, the bottleneck will be your gigabit Ethernet. So RAIDZ2 will still cap your gigabit Ethernet and offer better redundancy. However if you can only buy two drives to start, then a mirror will be your only option.

 

[joelmusicman]

You didn't specify what type of media you're pushing to XBMC: Uncompressed Blu Ray ISOs will be a lot more load on your NAS than x264 encoded 480p files.

Regarding hardware, my setup can do some heavy file transfers on PC while my Raspbmc client plays SD movies without a hiccup:

Node 304
Asrock E3C224D2I
Pentium G3220
8gb Crucial ECC ram
6x3tb Seagates (RAIDZ2)

 

[Yatti420]

Unless AC is drastically better then N - I don't get great wireless performance.. All the pcs I own are wireless currently and it makes it a little tricky streaming to them..

 

[Yatti420]

If you think you can use the power get a xeon.. If not maybe the Pentium G series (newer socket) to start.. More ram the better.. I like SuperMicro boards.. Been relatively easy going so far..

 

[joelmusicman]

The centralized xbmc library certainly sounds interesting. I am not too concerned about data loss just yet as it will just be movies and I will back them up on a separate device. Is there a certain configuation that will serve my data faster to the network, also is there a way to mount an SSD internally not utilising one of the six slots.

Here you go: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?titl...ySQL/Setting_up_MySQL#tab=FreeNAS_and_freeBSD

I'm running this and it really improved the browsing experience for XBMC on a Raspberry Pi. Playback is unaffected of course.

For your use an SSD is absolutely NOT needed.

 

[Horribilas]

You didn't specify what type of media you're pushing to XBMC: Uncompressed Blu Ray ISOs will be a lot more load on your NAS than x264 encoded 480p files.

Regarding hardware, my setup can do some heavy file transfers on PC while my Raspbmc client plays SD movies without a hiccup:

Node 304
Asrock E3C224D2I
Pentium G3220
8gb Crucial ECC ram
6x3tb Seagates (RAIDZ2)

My biggest files at present are 6GB MKV but it would have to have the ability to do larger files in the future. I don't like the idea of having to upgrade processing power.

Unless AC is drastically better then N - I don't get great wireless performance.. All the pcs I own are wireless currently and it makes it a little tricky streaming to them..

I believe AC is theoretically capable of 1300Mbps so it should be running at around the same speed as the ethernet connection.

If you think you can use the power get a xeon.. If not maybe the Pentium G series (newer socket) to start.. More ram the better.. I like SuperMicro boards.. Been relatively easy going so far..

I will have a look at a Xeon, what would be the optimal miniITX board for it. Also can you recommend a good PSU that would fit but not constrain the graphics slot if I decided later on for whatever reason to add one.

Here you go: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?titl...ySQL/Setting_up_MySQL#tab=FreeNAS_and_freeBSD

I'm running this and it really improved the browsing experience for XBMC on a Raspberry Pi. Playback is unaffected of course.

For your use an SSD is absolutely NOT needed.

I would prefer not to have a USB stick hanging out of one of the USB slots is there a better way to accomplish the 4GB drive, I am thinking a board with 3 USB slots should do the trick and zip tie the USB stick to the inside of the case.

Thank you all for help. The ultimate aim is to have 6 3TB Reds serving my home media on the network in a RAIDZ2 configuration as Yatti suggested.

 

[cyberjock]

My biggest files at present are 6GB MKV but it would have to have the ability to do larger files in the future. I don't like the idea of having to upgrade processing power.

You should have considered this potential outcome before you bought the hardware. :(

This is exactly why I tell people not to buy miniITX stuff. You buy in, then realize you screwed yourself in so many ways you're going to have to go back and practically buy a whole second system! See below.. because it's about to get worse...

I believe AC is theoretically capable of 1300Mbps so it should be running at around the same speed as the ethernet connection.

Not even close. Check out the other user that tried ac a week ago and made the same comment. He was so wrong he talked about returning the router because it wasn't worth it for like 10MB/sec.

I will have a look at a Xeon, what would be the optimal miniITX board for it. Also can you recommend a good PSU that would fit but not constrain the graphics slot if I decided later on for whatever reason to add one.

AFAIK there aren't any server-grade mini-ITX boards that use full fledged Xeons. You make certain concessions when you go with mini-ITX. This is one of them.

I would prefer not to have a USB stick hanging out of one of the USB slots is there a better way to accomplish the 4GB drive, I am thinking a board with 3 USB slots should do the trick and zip tie the USB stick to the inside of the case.

So get one of those internal cables that converts from your onboard USB connector to a standard USB-A port. Total cost = $5.

 

[Horribilas]

You should have considered this potential outcome before you bought the hardware. :(

This is exactly why I tell people not to buy miniITX stuff. You buy in, then realize you screwed yourself in so many ways you're going to have to go back and practically buy a whole second system! See below.. because it's about to get worse...



Not even close. Check out the other user that tried ac a week ago and made the same comment. He was so wrong he talked about returning the router because it wasn't worth it for like 10MB/sec.



AFAIK there aren't any server-grade mini-ITX boards that use full fledged Xeons. You make certain concessions when you go with mini-ITX. This is one of them.



So get one of those internal cables that converts from your onboard USB connector to a standard USB-A port. Total cost = $5.

This is what I am after a no holds barred assessment of my plans, I actually haven't bought anything yet however. My attachment to the Node 304 and small form miniITX boards is aesthetic and my attachment to WD reds is this here forum.

I am pretty confident I can get good speeds over AC as my Intel AC adaptors are embedded in the NUC's.

If miniITX is insufficent for multiple streams what would you suggest bearing in mind I have an open slate for server side hardware but am somewhat committed to an AC WIFI network for transmission.

 

[cyberjock]

I don't provide hardware lists as a course of business. There's trade-offs and I've had too many people get upset over the trade-offs they weren't aware of. I'd recommend you check out the stickies in the hardware sections and consider a Xeon E3-1230v2 or 1230v3(depending on the CPU you want).

Frankly, if you are really planning to use Wifi, it really doesn't matter what you buy. You're going to be back here complaining about poor performance anyway. Wifi is a convenience technology, not a performance technology.

Feel free to read the conversation from last week with someone that thought the same thing: http://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/extremely-low-performance-over-media-bridge.18824/

 

[Horribilas]

I don't provide hardware lists as a course of business. There's trade-offs and I've had too many people get upset over the trade-offs they weren't aware of. I'd recommend you check out the stickies in the hardware sections and consider a Xeon E3-1230v2 or 1230v3(depending on the CPU you want).

Frankly, if you are really planning to use Wifi, it really doesn't matter what you buy. You're going to be back here complaining about poor performance anyway. Wifi is a convenience technology, not a performance technology.

Feel free to read the conversation from last week with someone that thought the same thing: http://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/extremely-low-performance-over-media-bridge.18824/

Thanks for the reply! If my performance will be constrained by the AC link and not the miniITX then it sounds like the Node 304 is fine for me as I have no desire to wire the house. I will just have to deal with the lower speeds unless/until it seriously annoys me. I will however do some tests this weekend to see what speed I can get from my router to the NUC, thanks for your help and sorry I missed the generally anti-WIFI attitude of the forum. I guess I am just after best possible using WIFI.

 

[joelmusicman]

This is exactly why I tell people not to buy miniITX stuff. You buy in, then realize you screwed yourself in so many ways you're going to have to go back and practically buy a whole second system! See below.. because it's about to get worse...

I'm definitely seeing the limitations of mITX. While it's definitely fine for now, my memory is maxed at 16GB. If I later want to expand my storage I'd have to totally start over, whereas with uATX I could use more existing hardware.

Not even close. Check out the other user that tried ac a week ago and made the same comment. He was so wrong he talked about returning the router because it wasn't worth it for like 10MB/sec.

I was contributing to that discussion, and I think the OP was using a mixture of AC and N tech. I have an AC router and a Haswell MBP and transfer rates are ~25MB/s from sofa to TV area with no other traffic on my network. The "1300" ratings are supposedly for multiple user scenarios. Still a LONG way from GbE.

AFAIK there aren't any server-grade mini-ITX boards that use full fledged Xeons. You make certain concessions when you go with mini-ITX. This is one of them.

I can't believe I'm actually correcting CyberJock!!! :D

There are exactly two that I know of:
Asrock E3C224D2I - I own this one.
Asrock E3C226D2I - Has a slightly better northbridge with all SATA3 ports. I've had no issues with compatibility though.

So get one of those internal cables that converts from your onboard USB connector to a standard USB-A port. Total cost = $5.

Both boards I just listed have internal USB ports that can take a stick directly.

 

[joelmusicman]

Thanks for the reply! If my performance will be constrained by the AC link and not the miniITX then it sounds like the Node 304 is fine for me as I have no desire to wire the house. I will just have to deal with the lower speeds unless/until it seriously annoys me. I will however do some tests this weekend to see what speed I can get from my router to the NUC, thanks for your help and sorry I missed the generally anti-WIFI attitude of the forum. I guess I am just after best possible using WIFI.

TBH, you're probably fine using WIFI with media streaming. I know there's a way to increase the cache settings in XBMC, so I'd just bump that up pretty high and that should handle any network hiccups.

 

[cyberjock]

I can't believe I'm actually correcting CyberJock!!! :D

There are exactly two that I know of:
Asrock E3C224D2I - I own this one.
Asrock E3C226D2I - Has a slightly better northbridge with all SATA3 ports. I've had no issues with compatibility though.

Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't call Asrock server-grade when they've been in the market a whole 6 months. Making server-grade components is a totally different beast from making desktop-grade components. Asus make "server-grade" too, and I think they are complete crap. Their desktop components are pretty good though. Asus has had serious "noob" mistakes with those boards if you look around the forums. So I seem them as a potential contender in the future. But for right now I don't consider them to be server-grade.

 

[joelmusicman]

Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't call Asrock server-grade when they've been in the market a whole 6 months. Making server-grade components is a totally different beast from making desktop-grade components. Asus make "server-grade" too, and I think they are complete crap. Their desktop components are pretty good though. Asus has had serious "noob" mistakes with those boards if you look around the forums. So I seem them as a potential contender in the future. But for right now I don't consider them to be server-grade.

Ah. I understand now. I looked at some of their 1155 boards and the BIOS download indicates they were released in May 2013. Not long at all in the server world, where having a long track record is king... They do accept Xeons though.

 

[raidflex]

Also streaming from the server to XBMC clients with a centralized library takes very little CPU. With XBMC you are not transcoding the files on the server just streaming over the network. I would just go with a build that at least has ECC memory support. Really unless you are running many plugins or transcoding video, you do not need a high end CPU. I would worry about purchasing reliable components as cyberjock suggested.

Edit: As far as WiFi AC speeds, you will see about 20-30MB/s max. I have an AC router and 30MB/s is as much as I have seen, and that is very close to the router. Still that is very fast for WiFi standards, there is a lot of overhead with WiFi.

 

[Horribilas]

Hi guys, I couldn't wait till the weekend and ran some server side LAN speed tests to my little NUC's SSD at 5Ghz with AES. Generally the upload was about 20Mbps faster through the walls and 50Mbps faster directly in front. I have looked at some other posts and generally 50Mbps is thought to be enough to stream 1080P.

Through 2 plaster walls at a distance of about 3M:

Directly in front at 1M:

I am wondering the difference in LAN speed when it's client side driven as opposed to server side driven. Also the router will be moved into the lounge area and have direct LOS to the entertainment room but will be 8M distance as opposed to 3M.