TrueNas Core or Scale for medium usage?

[TDi39]

Hello,

while ago (almost 1y ) I opened this discussion, despite I received many suggestions, today I was looking into this, and this user suggested this minimum hardware: https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/home-nas-solution-how-to-contain-costs.105588/post-726720

I'm not looking at that anymore due to a couple of reasons:
1. I don't need the DEV machine to sit on the NAS anymore, even if I could with the hardware I'm gonna post. So things like Xeon and Supermicro are really not necessary.
2. It's quite difficult to get hardware in UK, mainly warranty for the super expensive new hardware that TrueNas Scale requires, so I'd rather buy commercial hardware and buy it new to get warranty, and even that costs less probably :D .
Certainly I won't have all the enterprise perks like the IPMI, but is that really necessary?
I've also read that some ASRock has IPMI, I've never seen it but whatever, if so, cool!

So, I was thinking to the following hardware, but the compatible one mentioned by this company is dated to the:
Intel Core i3-6300 LGA 1151
Two cores with hyper-threading but no turbo boost.

Intel Core i3-8300
The Core i3-8300 trades hyper-threading for two additional physical cores

Ideally, is it not better to take something more recent?

Intel® Core™ i3-13100TE Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.10 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i3-13100TE Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.10 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

Or whatever is on this list:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...1=3,4&0_ECCMemory=True&1_Filter-Family=122139

Interestingly, I didn't find so many info about recent supported motherboards, or the issue is that TrueNas Core supports only LGA 1151 as most recent socket?

My expectations and specs are the following:
1. 4 x12TB (CMR), or maybe 8TB disks
2. Mainly used for data storage and backups from Time Machine, even though I have plenty of external disks for that at the moment (bad mistake)... The data storage shouldn't exceed 5TB in total including Time Machine.
3. I'm gonna move next year and I want to install video cameras, so this NAS should have enough performance for that too.
4. My router has 1Gb/s ports, so, I'm tight and this is not gonna change at the moment unless I change the network card, but it's not necessary. I don't write much, once I store my data, daily file editing is a joke, only videocameras will be the constant workload...
5. Everything should be encrypted, so CPU performance is important, but the CPU I posted should handle it well...

Is there any reason why I shouldn't go for Core instead of Scale?
With Core, I could be around 1k pounds, with Scale, oh dear, much more...

 

[Etorix]

Quick answser to the title: CORE, unless you do need the containers in SCALE. The recommended hardware is the same in both cases.

2. It's quite difficult to get hardware in UK, mainly warranty for the super expensive new hardware that TrueNas Scale requires, so I'd rather buy commercial hardware and buy it new to get warranty, and even that costs less probably :D .
Certainly I won't have all the enterprise perks like the IPMI, but is that really necessary?
I've also read that some ASRock has IPMI, I've never seen it but whatever, if so, cool!

IPMI is not necessary, but it's nice to have to manage the NAS without having to plug in a keyboard and monitor. AsRockRack, a sister company to AsRock, makes plenty of server boards with IMPI; prices are in line with their competitor Supermicro.
As to keeping costs down, the trick is to buy second-hand/refurbished. Data drives should preferably be new, and also the PSU: These are the most critical components. Everything else can be used.

So, I was thinking to the following hardware, but the compatible one mentioned by this company is dated to the:
Intel Core i3-6300 LGA 1151
Two cores with hyper-threading but no turbo boost.

Intel Core i3-8300
The Core i3-8300 trades hyper-threading for two additional physical cores

You can move down to a 6100, 8100 or 9100. An extra 0.2 GHz won't make much of a practical difference.
These oldies and the matching C232/C236 or C242/C246 boards (ideally, to enjoy ECC with the Core i3) are best sourced second-hand… if you can find them.

Ideally, is it not better to take something more recent?

Intel® Core™ i3-13100TE Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.10 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i3-13100TE Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.10 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

Newer is not necessarily better. Regular Core i3-10000/11000 and newer no longer support ECC, so are not good candidates for a TrueNAS build "by the textbook". Your pick of a "TE" embedded CPU supports ECC… but can you find it at all???

Interestingly, I didn't find so many info about recent supported motherboards, or the issue is that TrueNas Core supports only LGA 1151 as most recent socket?

You do not find information about more recent motherboards and CPU because they are not recommended, not because they are not supported. Cheap Core i3 no longer support ECC, you need more expensive Xeon E. And newer hardware is increasingly more expensive because of PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 requirements, which somewhat defeats the purpose of a cheap build.

My expectations and specs are the following:
1. 4 x12TB (CMR), or maybe 8TB disks
2. Mainly used for data storage and backups from Time Machine, even though I have plenty of external disks for that at the moment (bad mistake)... The data storage shouldn't exceed 5TB in total including Time Machine.
3. I'm gonna move next year and I want to install video cameras, so this NAS should have enough performance for that too.
4. My router has 1Gb/s ports, so, I'm tight and this is not gonna change at the moment unless I change the network card, but it's not necessary. I don't write much, once I store my data, daily file editing is a joke, only videocameras will be the constant workload...

All very fine. Whatever you pick (including consumer/gaming motherboards without ECC, which are "not recommended"), make sure to have a Intel i210 NIC onboard, not a 2.5 GbE NIC (even Intel) and not Realtek/Killer/whatever.
And when you're ready to move up, 10 GbE NIC cards from Solarflare or Chelsio are $50 on eBay at this moment.

5. Everything should be encrypted, so CPU performance is important, but the CPU I posted should handle it well...

Beware about managing your keys! Losing them would be a self-inflicted ransomware.

 

[TDi39]

Quick answser to the title: CORE, unless you do need the containers in SCALE. The recommended hardware is the same in both cases.

IPMI is not necessary, but it's nice to have to manage the NAS without having to plug in a keyboard and monitor. AsRockRack, a sister company to AsRock, makes plenty of server boards with IMPI; prices are in line with their competitor Supermicro.
As to keeping costs down, the trick is to buy second-hand/refurbished. Data drives should preferably be new, and also the PSU: These are the most critical components. Everything else can be used.

You can move down to a 6100, 8100 or 9100. An extra 0.2 GHz won't make much of a practical difference.
These oldies and the matching C232/C236 or C242/C246 boards (ideally, to enjoy ECC with the Core i3) are best sourced second-hand… if you can find them.

Newer is not necessarily better. Regular Core i3-10000/11000 and newer no longer support ECC, so are not good candidates for a TrueNAS build "by the textbook". Your pick of a "TE" embedded CPU supports ECC… but can you find it at all???

You do not find information about more recent motherboards and CPU because they are not recommended, not because they are not supported. Cheap Core i3 no longer support ECC, you need more expensive Xeon E. And newer hardware is increasingly more expensive because of PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 requirements, which somewhat defeats the purpose of a cheap build.


All very fine. Whatever you pick (including consumer/gaming motherboards without ECC, which are "not recommended"), make sure to have a Intel i210 NIC onboard, not a 2.5 GbE NIC (even Intel) and not Realtek/Killer/whatever.
And when you're ready to move up, 10 GbE NIC cards from Solarflare or Chelsio are $50 on eBay at this moment.


Beware about managing your keys! Losing them would be a self-inflicted ransomware.

Thank you, you gave me some really good advice, I have a few questions though.
I don't have intention to build a NAS without ECC, it's another machine to maintain as well as all the network setup, the last thing I need it to solve disk corruption issues that I have no idea how to fix atm...
Surely the drives and PSU will be new.
CPU availability is also a problem, you're right, so it's all about what I find, damn...
Would you pick up an Intel I3 or Xeon? The issue is that those old Xeon are power hangry, let's say 2x... I pay 0.43 per Kw/h................................

I don't think I'm gonna upgrade the network card on the router/firewall because also my switch is 1 Gb/s.
Yes, I saved money on the wrong item, but 10 Gb/s was twice the price years ago, I guess it's the same today.

 

[TDi39]

From my old notes, I have the following:

~2015 socket
1. https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/X10SDV-4C-TLN2F
2. https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/x11ssh-f

I also see many of these 2 boards with CPU and MB altogether, sometimes with RAM included, it saves time.
The TDP is not great, but I don't see so much better from newer systems.

2011 socket
x9scm from ebay: 70$ (the BIOS MUST be updated due to a bug, I'm not sure exactly what version, it was in my notes)
e3-1230 v2 from ebay: 40$
32GB ECC ddr3 from ebay: 100$
(the money figures are indicative)

This config is way too old, I mean, my system should hold up for the next 7y minimum, disks aside :D .
Honestly, the same speech could apply to the other one, if anything breaks, it will be tough to even understand what's broken, I'll need to rely on PC technicians in the city, I would miss necessary components to test, and usually technicians don't exactly have enterprise stuff :) .
But I guess that this falls down into those things -> think later, or you'll never get it.

 

[Davvo]

I would suggest not going older than Coffee Lake processors in order to get decent power efficency.

 

[TDi39]

I would suggest not going older than Coffee Lake processors in order to get decent power efficency.

Thanks, but I don't have an hardware list of something later than 2017, I need to google it :D .

 

[TDi39]

Beware about managing your keys! Losing them would be a self-inflicted ransomware.

Oh btw, what do you mean by this?
Is it just a reminder :D or I should be aware of something specific for TrueNAS?

 

[ChrisRJ]

The issue is that those old Xeon are power hangry

No, they are not. The TDP is not the average power consumption but, as the name suggests, the maximal thermal dissemination. My NAS needs about 100 W when idle. The CPU alone has a TDP of 130 W according to Intel. Put that into perspective and you know what I mean ...

 

[Whattteva]

2. It's quite difficult to get hardware in UK, mainly warranty for the super expensive new hardware that TrueNas Scale requires, so I'd rather buy commercial hardware and buy it new to get warranty, and even that costs less probably :D .

I guess if you value warranty that high. I've only RMA'd stuff twice (excludes HDD's0 in 20 years of building computers and both times are basically DoA and never works from the very beginning. If stuff fails within 15-30 days, Ebay will generally refund you. Stuff that works beyond that will generally keep working for the foreseeable future, this is especially true with enterprise gear. The first machine in my signature is ALL used parts and yes, even the HDD's and SSD's are used. I love enterprise gear. They're cheap and reliable.

Certainly I won't have all the enterprise perks like the IPMI, but is that really necessary?
I've also read that some ASRock has IPMI, I've never seen it but whatever, if so, cool!

I used to roll with no IPMI. Then I got one and I can't go back. It is super extremely inconvenient for me to have to plug in a keyboard/monitor to the server everytime it has a problem. You may not think so right now, but I'm thinking you will change your mind once you've used it.

So, I was thinking to the following hardware, but the compatible one mentioned by this company is dated to the:
Intel Core i3-6300 LGA 1151
Two cores with hyper-threading but no turbo boost.

Intel Core i3-8300
The Core i3-8300 trades hyper-threading for two additional physical cores

It really comes down to your workload. If you need absolute speed, you want higher clock speed over cores. If you plan on running a lot of VM's, then you'll want the cores.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't go for Core instead of Scale?

If all you need is a NAS, CORE will give you much better ARC performance. If you want to run Apps, use SCALE. Neither is better than the other. They just kinda' target different types of users.

 

[Whattteva]

I would suggest not going older than Coffee Lake processors in order to get decent power efficency.

Honestly, anything after Haswell/Broadwell are pretty power efficient. My 4th-gen i3 4160 from 2014 only consumes ~54-60W with 4 HDD's connected at idle.

 

[TDi39]

I would suggest not going older than Coffee Lake processors in order to get decent power efficency.

As more recent than Coffe Lake, I found this: https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/x12sca-f
But I don't see it as recommended by TrueNAS, basically the recommended hardware stops at 2015, am I wrong?

Anyway, the problem is to find an available low TDP CPU (these are 2020-2021), low TDP doesn't mean much but it gives an idea of how much it drains in idle.

 

[Whattteva]

Thanks, but I don't have an hardware list of something later than 2017, I need to google it :D .

Coffee Lake just means 8th-gen Intel Core processors. So any models starting with 8xxx.

 

[TDi39]

Coffee Lake just means 8th-gen Intel Core processors. So any models starting with 8xxx.

Thanks, I just highlighted the struggle on the point above, but I'll try to find that hardware.

 

[Whattteva]

Anyway, the problem is to find an available low TDP CPU (these are 2020-2021), low TDP doesn't mean much but it gives an idea of how much it drains in idle.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the TDP numbers though. Generally, the newer generations will give you better performance/W due to smaller transistor size. Your idle power consumption will tend to go up the more cores you have also.

 

[Davvo]

X11 motherboards are fine as well and might actually be cheaper @TDi39

 

[Etorix]

Would you pick up an Intel I3 or Xeon? The issue is that those old Xeon are power hangry, let's say 2x... I pay 0.43 per Kw/h................................

Xeon E3 / E-2000 are Core CPUs with ECC support; there's no power penalty for going Xeon E over Core i3.
I would expect i3 to be cheaper, by virtue of being large volume consumer parts, but if you find a deal on a Xeon E go for it.

If low power at idle becomes the main criteria, Atom C3000 (Supermicro A2SDi, new) and good old Xeon D-1500 (Supermicro X10SDV, and some AsRockRack boards, often found as "Datto" rebrands) are proven champions.

I don't think I'm gonna upgrade the network card on the router/firewall because also my switch is 1 Gb/s.
Yes, I saved money on the wrong item, but 10 Gb/s was twice the price years ago, I guess it's the same today.

A Mikrotik CRS-305-4S-1G+IN switch and DACs are not so expensive. But we can let this for later.

From my old notes, I have the following:

~2015 socket
1. https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/X10SDV-4C-TLN2F

Anything starting in X10SDV, really… These are not socketed, but soldered, so the price "includes the CPU" (and cooler). DDR4-2400 RDIMM is cheap.

2. https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/x11ssh-f

X11SS_ is Skylake/Kaby Lake (Xeon E3v5/6, Core 6000/7000); X11SC_ is Coffee Lake (Xeon E-2000, Core 8000/9000).
'H' is a high-end C2x6 board, typically with 8 SATA. If you're sure not to need that many ports, you may add 'M' and 'L' C2x2 boards. Plus C200 boards from AsRockRack, Asus, Gigabyte, etc. Unfortunately, the market for C246 boards has gone crazy; if you go this route, you may have to consider also desktop/workstation boards in addition to dedicated server boards.

The TDP is not great, but I don't see so much better from newer systems.

Do not confuse TDP with actual power draw. A NAS is mostly idle.

2011 socket
…

This config is way too old, I mean, my system should hold up for the next 7y minimum, disks aside :D .

DDR3-era systems are very cheap now, but, of course they are old. Quite possibly too old.

Honestly, the same speech could apply to the other one, if anything breaks, it will be tough to even understand what's broken, I'll need to rely on PC technicians in the city, I would miss necessary components to test, and usually technicians don't exactly have enterprise stuff :) .

Server motherboards are still motherboards; they are not THAT different from the consumer hardware you and the city PC technician are familiar with. Professionally refurbished items may still have some warranty from the seller. But the basic idea is that if something breaks, you just swallow it and buy a new one. Spinning drives are still the most likely point of failure.

Oh btw, what do you mean by this?
Is it just a reminder :D or I should be aware of something specific for TrueNAS?

Just a reminder that you MUST have copies of the keys on SAFE storage outside of the NAS to be able to recover from boot drive failure and/or move the pool to another system.

 

[Davvo]

I don't know you all, but to me with zero knowledge about soldering if something breaks on a motherboard I can only hope someone will slip and have a bad day, be it server or gaming/commercial hardware.

 

[Whattteva]

Oh btw, what do you mean by this?
Is it just a reminder :D or I should be aware of something specific for TrueNAS?

It isn't anything specific to TrueNAS. This is just general precaution when you encrypt anything in general. Lose the key, lose your data. It's like putting your important belongings in a safe lockbox and then misplacing/losing the key afterwards.

 

[TDi39]

I don't know you all, but to me with zero knowledge about soldering if something breaks on a motherboard I can only hope someone will slip and have a bad day, be it server or gaming/commercial hardware.

I didn't have that intention, I mentioned the wrong MB by mistake.

----------------------------------------

Anyway, I'd like to take the following hardware, considering that I found it available:

MB: X11SCA-F 1151 ( Single LAN with Intel® PHY I219LM LAN controller + Single LAN with Intel® Ethernet Controller I210-AT, Shared with IPMI)​

OR X11SCL-F (Dual LAN with 1GbE with Intel® I210)
OR X11SSL-F (Dual LAN with Intel® Ethernet Controller I210-AT, I hope it doesn't differ too much from I210))
Some of these support only (I found mainly E3-1230 v6, I need to check):

8th/9th Generation Intel® Core™ i3/Pentium®/Celeron® Processor, Intel® Xeon® E-2100 Processor, Intel® Xeon® E-2200 Processor.
Single Socket LGA-1151 (Socket H4) supported, CPU TDP supports Up to 95W TDP.

No 10 Gb/s, but considering that I don't need it, I can close one eye :D , it would be certainly nice to have 10 Gb/s in the MB network card, ut I'm going crazy with all the SKUs...

CPU: Xeon E3-1230 v6 (they go from V2 upt o V6, no difference for my usage I guess)
This CPU doesn't lower much the frequency in idle, it's not the perfect CPU for my usage but what to say, I didn't find better so far.
The Xeon E-2100 (page 91) for example lowers the frequency below 1 GHz (in testing, with the NAS it will be at least 1.5 GHz I guess), but I believe that the E3-1230 is capable of the same, I just don't see it written.

RAM will be 32GB UDIMM ECC

What do you think?

 

[Davvo]

Amongst other things, the following script can be configured to mail you both your config backup and your secret seed.

Multi_report.sh version for Core and Scale

This resource was originally created by user: @joeschmuck on the TrueNAS Community Forums Archive. https://www.truenas.com/community/resources/multi_report-sh-version-for-core-and-scale.179/download Multi-Report Tool to chart and record statistical data on your drives. This will email the...

www.truenas.com

Regarding CPUs, consider the Pentium as well.