So, Broadwell Xeon-E3 v4 is official...

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Ericloewe

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Here we are in this awkward position for Broadwell: Haswell is already very well-established in the market, Skylake is due shortly and will be a serious boost for Xeon E3 (RDIMM DDR4 support - which lifts the burdensome 32GB RAM limit to 128GB and maybe more - along with the obligatory performance and power improvements.).

So, what does Broadwell bring to the table?
Crystalwell - a 128MB L4 cache, for all intents and purposes.

Its usefulness relies on the existence of a structure too large for L3 (6MB on 4C desktop Broadwell) but still small enough and accessed frequently enough for L4 to provide a tangible benefit. I'm not sure such a thing exists.
 

jgreco

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The improvements from Sandy Bridge until now are relatively modest. I'm not seeing anything super-compelling.
 

cyberjock

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I'm with jgreco. Sandy Bridge and newer doesn't provide an overly-compelling upgrade, aside from very specific situations (newer PCIe version support, more lanes, etc).
 

Ericloewe

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I'm with jgreco. Sandy Bridge and newer doesn't provide an overly-compelling upgrade, aside from very specific situations (newer PCIe version support, more lanes, etc).
Definitely. The question here is more like "Should I upgrade my old server now/build my new server now or wait a bit for Broadwell?" I doubt the wait is worth it, all things considered.
 

Lox

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I was holding off my purchase of recommended hardware untill there was some more information for the E3V4 CPU's.

Looking at the information available it doesnt look like a huge improvement over the current hardware, atleast for "normal" home users.
The new platform, or even just the DDR4, is going to increase the entry price up aswell.

I'm also guessing the new platform will take some time before its 100% supported (or recommended) for use in Freenas?
 

Ericloewe

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I was holding off my purchase of recommended hardware untill there was some more information for the E3V4 CPU's.

Looking at the information available it doesnt look like a huge improvement over the current hardware, atleast for "normal" home users.
The new platform, or even just the DDR4, is going to increase the entry price up aswell.

I'm also guessing the new platform will take some time before its 100% supported (or recommended) for use in Freenas?

Broadwell still uses DDR3. Other than BIOS updates, it should be 100% compatible with Haswell platforms. You'll notice there are no Broadwell-exclusive motherboards.
 

9C1 Newbee

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Not sure if I am imagining things or not. It seems as if processors and memory is up against a hard barrior and is waiting for a HUGE breakthrough. You can see this by the way my hardware hasn't really tanked in value. Hell, some things went up in value.
 

jgreco

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Not sure if I am imagining things or not. It seems as if processors and memory is up against a hard barrior and is waiting for a HUGE breakthrough. You can see this by the way my hardware hasn't really tanked in value. Hell, some things went up in value.

Well, the thing that needs to happen is the decimation of the 32GB UDIMM barrier that the E3's have suffered under for some years now. This is relevant both to ZFS (where memory is ARC is performance) and ESXi, where more faster cores mean you need more RAM for your VM's.

The problem is that Intel views E3 as an entry level platform, which it is, and they have to be really careful not to kill the golden goose, which is the big dollars that people usually pay for E5. But even in E5, the interesting thing is that the single-socket version of the E5 isn't horribly expensive. The E5-1620v3 (3.5GHz, 4 cores, 10MB) is only around $290, which is only thirty bucks more than the E3-1241v3, which has very similar specs. However, the E5-1650v3, which adds two more (50% more) cores, is 100% more expensive, at $580.

So Intel has, up until now, banked on cores, not memory, being the thing that they can really charge primo rates for. The jump from E3 to E5 on a similarly specced processor is only a modest price bump. But E3 doesn't offer more than 4 cores, and in E5, the pricing for cores isn't linear.

As a matter of fact, once you jump over to E5-2600, the price basically triples. The E5-2643v3 is a very similar processor to the E5-1650v3, except that it has a little more cache and it is designed for dual socket deployments, meaning that it is actually half of a 12 core server. The CPU is priced at over $1500, which is triple the 1650v3.

So, anyways, that's pricing irrationality in the Xeon market. Obviously Intel is making good cash off of cache, ha, ha, ha, ha.

From a marketing perspective, the E3 strategy is a little bit old at this point, but still really seems to fit the market pretty well. There's definitely a lot of applications for a 32GB-limited E3. So the introduction of the Xeon D with 128GB was interesting. It may eat some of the E3, but then again it is looking like the Xeon D is going to be rather more pricey. There's an argument to be made that Intel historically priced the E3 too low.

And of course then there's all the Broadwell stuff which is mostly useless for us over here in NASland. http://www.anandtech.com/show/9339/xeon-e31200-v4-launch-only-with-gpu-integrated
 

Ericloewe

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Well, the thing that needs to happen is the decimation of the 32GB UDIMM barrier that the E3's have suffered under for some years now. This is relevant both to ZFS (where memory is ARC is performance) and ESXi, where more faster cores mean you need more RAM for your VM's.
Xeon-D and Xeon E3 v5 will take care of that one.

Skylake Xeon E3 is said to support RDIMMs: http://www.servethehome.com/intel-skylake-ddr4-rdimm-support/
 

jgreco

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Yes, but it seems very much like they are eating into E5 territory, especially E5–1600. I am wondering what the overall strategy is going to be for the lower end Xeon.
 

Ericloewe

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Yes, but it seems very much like they are eating into E5 territory, especially E5–1600. I am wondering what the overall strategy is going to be for the lower end Xeon.
I guess they'll stick to differentiating based on connectivity. Xeon E3 is cheaper, but smaller, half the memory (and half the bandwidth) and just 16 lanes of PCI-e. Xeon E5-16xx gets twice the bandwidth (but still no LRDIMMs) and the traditional crapload of PCI-e lanes. Maybe we'll see Xeon E3 pricing increase, too.

I do wonder what this means for i3s and ECC - is Xeon getting a different memory controller or are they doing a soft de-rate?

Interesting things ahead, one way or the other.
 

D G

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Could the increased video streaming performance be an advantage for those using FreeNAS as a media server? I currently have a pentium in my server, but I've been wanting to upgrade to an E3 this year. Would it be worth it go go for a v4 over a v3 when they come out, or do you think the video streaming ( http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-e3-1200v4-brief.html) won't be advantageous for, say, plex media server?
I don't want to upgrade my motherboard too and wait for the next socket. I figure an E3 v3 or v4 will last me for quite a while...
 

Ericloewe

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Could the increased video streaming performance be an advantage for those using FreeNAS as a media server? I currently have a pentium in my server, but I've been wanting to upgrade to an E3 this year. Would it be worth it go go for a v4 over a v3 when they come out, or do you think the video streaming ( http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-e3-1200v4-brief.html) won't be advantageous for, say, plex media server?
I don't want to upgrade my motherboard too and wait for the next socket. I figure an E3 v3 or v4 will last me for quite a while...
That's mostly on the GPU side. That's far from working with FreeBSD at the moment.
 
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D G

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Ah, that is a good insight. I figured that would be the case. Thank you for answering that. So since these v4 chips look like they're going to be quite a bit more pricey (from an Intel page I came across), I'd probably be better off getting a v3 Xeon?
 

Ericloewe

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Ah, that is a good insight. I figured that would be the case. Thank you for answering that. So since these v4 chips look like they're going to be quite a bit more pricey (from an Intel page I came across), I'd probably be better off getting a v3 Xeon?

Yeah, unless your specific use case benefits massively from 128MB of L4 cache and/or you really need every last drop of performance you can get in an LGA1150 platform.
 
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