FreeNAS dilettante needs help to build a new 8 drive FreeNAS server.

[Bozon]

Please, help me make some final choices on hardware for my new FreeNAS server.

I have decided on a couple of things.

I really like this case:

http://www.u-nas.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17640&cat=249&page=1

64 Gigabytes of memory,
moderate cost
moderate power consumption

I am using it for Apple Back up Server, and home filesharing.

I am a software person, with a computer engineering minor, which makes me just knowledgable enough to be dangerous. You know, all theory, and no practical experience.

I like the idea of getting a Micro ATX board with an LSI Controller.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1WK-0010-002M5

But I also wouldn't mind getting a Mobo without a controller and adding this card recommended by Chris Moore
I can't decide on a good low cost motherboard to that would take this card.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142124364588

It is when I start choosing a processor for this that I start to bog down, along with a cooler, etc.

Also, is there a good older board that takes DDR3 memory instead of DDR4, I wouldn't mind saving money there? And an Older CPU to boot. I'll put the money into drives.

Here is a other thread about this case:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/first-build-u-nas-nsc-810a-chassis-case.59612/

 

[Bozon]

This card was also on the hardware list of good cards. It is DDR3 and older version of CPU so it might be cheaper to build out.

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-M...4048893&sr=8-1&keywords=SuperMicro+X10SLL-F-O

 

[Constantin]

You're likely better off with something like the Mini XL and the hardware therein. Only 32GB memory but works well. If you want to go to 64GB, I'd put out a search on ebay re: the relevant memory modules. If you want to build your own, you can still stick to the ASRock CI2750DI board and got from there - it is very well supported and its cost is modest.

For a more modern and capable board, the C3000-based series or Xeon-D series are good options also.

 

[Bozon]

For a more modern and capable board, the C3000-based series or Xeon-D series are good options also.

Thanks for your input.

Do you mean these?

https://www.servethehome.com/asrock-rack-c3000d4-series-embedded-motherboards-announced/

ASRock Rack C3758D4U-2TP
The ASRock Rack C3758D4U-2TP combines the 8-core 24W TDP Intel Atom C3758 24W TDP CPU with a mATX form factor to provide expanded capacbilities. For example, there are two Marvell 9172 SATA III controllers for 4 port 6.0gbps SATA III. Networking includes 2x RJ45 via the Intel X557 10Gbase-T NIC. Expansion slots can be either both a PCIe 3.0 x8 and PCIe 3.0 x4 slot or the PCIe 3.0 x8 slot can be used for an optional SAS 3008 controller (pictured.) We also note that although we did not get the SFP+ version details, it appears as the marketing photo we received (above) is has the 2OP8R in its SKU which seems to indicate 2x SFP+ 10GbE along with a SAS 3008 controller.

ASRock Rack C3758D4I-4L
The mITX ASRock Rack C3758D4I-4L will ship with the Intel Atom C3758 8 core 24W TDP CPU. ASRock Rack will have up to 13x SATA III devices, 8 of which will use Mini-SAS HD (SFF-8643) connectors. ASRock is enabling the HSIO lane switching via BIOS so one can use HSIO lanes for either SATA or PCIe connections. This motherboard will also have up to 4x DDR4-2400 DIMM channels and quad LAN.

ASRock Rack C3558D4I-4L
Also, a mITX form factor, ASRock Rack C3558D4I-4L is similar to the C3758D4I-4L, however, utilizes the Intel Atom C3558 4 core 16W TDP CPU. ASRock Rack will have up to 5x SATA III devices, 4 of which will use a Mini-SAS HD (SFF-8643) connector. ASRock is enabling the HSIO lane switching via BIOS so one can use HSIO lanes for either SATA or PCIe connections. This motherboard will also have up to 4x DDR4-2133 DIMM channels and quad LAN. The I/O and DDR4 changes are being driven by the lower number of HSIO lanes on the Intel Atom C3558 SoC.

 

[Bozon]

I can't seem to find anyone selling the first board.

But Newegg has the second for 439 US. I really do like this board.
ASRock C3758D4I-4L Mini ITX Server Motherboard SOC

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813140012

 

[Constantin]

ASRock and Supermicro are the leading candidates in either field. Which board to choose comes down to personal preferences, such as how many SATA drives you want to attach today vs. tomorrow, whether you want 10GBe from the get-go (on-board or via PCIe later), if 10GBe on-board whether you want the copper flavor or SFP+ cages, HBA (usually via PCIe), SLOG device preferences (m2 vs. PCIe vs. SATA or SAS).

My takeaway with the 3xxx series is that no one currently manufacturers a 2-PCIe flex ATX board like the ones they do for the D-15xx series (though ASROCK did show one off at a show last year). That also likely has to do with the intent of the 3xxx series - less expensive, less power-hungry (esp. under load), and to some extent, less capable.

I currently own a C2750DI board from Asrock that came from a Mini XL. It's a great starter board and sips power. Since you don't need PLEX transcoding, Virtual hosts, and all the usual suspects re: high-CPU passmark requirements, you will likely be OK with that board as long as you can stomach being limited to 1 PCIe x8 slot, 1GBe connections, a 64GB RAM limit (and that RAM can be very hard to find, I got lucky), no m2 slot or other "fast" interface for SLOG and like devices. Several of the 12 on board SATA ports are limited to 3GB/s, so be careful where you attach SSDs. I upgraded my board with a iXsystems private-label Chelsio SFP+ network adapter.

If I were choosing among the current crop of 3000-series boards, I'd be selecting among the ones with a SFP+ port simply because that gives you the most high-speed flexibility going forward - plop in a direct connection for short distances, a transceiver for either copper or fiber for longer ones. Excellent 10GBe switches from the likes of Mikrotik and others are now shipping at low cost with SFP+ cages also. A SLOG is also a good idea but beware - on C3000 series motherboards, I have yet to see a m2 interface at speeds faster than x2, so you may not get the speedup you're seeking unless you go with a PCIe solution.

See servethehome.com for a pretty comprehensive review of the entire C3xxx field out there - look under "server" and then "low power servers". This website also has a thread dedicated to SLOG device performance. Servethehome also lists recommendations re: hardware for servers that I'd consult in addition to the recommended hardware guide here.

 

[Constantin]

Another interesting board in the 2750 series is this one from Supermicro: A1SA7-2750F

Has a on-board LSI 16-drive HBA, a PCIe connector for a later 10GBe connection retrofit.

 

[Bozon]

servethehome.com looks like a nice sight for monitoring what the industry is doing.
It has an article on this board Gigabyte MA10-ST0. That looks very sweet, but the price is high $894.97 on Newegg.

https://www.servethehome.com/gigabyte-ma10-st0-review-unique-storage-platform/
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=2KY-0037-00001

 

[Bozon]

This card was also on the hardware list of good cards. It is DDR3 and older version of CPU so it might be cheaper to build out.

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-M...4048893&sr=8-1&keywords=SuperMicro+X10SLL-F-O

I just looked a little closer and it only takes 32Gigs of RAM. I would really like to have more, but maybe it is enough.

 

[Bozon]

I am leaning 1 of 2 ways
Super Micro, microATX, with Xenon chip or MiniITX ASRock board.

SuperMicro:
board: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B018B7BMS2/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new
I like the built on SAS controller but I am not sure if I have to do anything special to make sure it doesn't use RAID. I assumed since it was on the FreeNAS mobo list, it would be an easy
cpu: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B015VPX05A/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all
memory: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7S67Y99043
Power Supply: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIABP956S3335
Drives: ???? I may have 8 NAS 2Tbyte drives laying around for a start. Plan to upgrade and auto expand to larger drives.
RaidZ2 or RaidZ3

ASRock:
Board: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157419
memory: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7S67BJ1731
same as above on rest.


It seems like the minimalist ASRock solution would be fine for what I need, and the cheapest.

 

[Constantin]

You have some very cost-effective solutions there. Which way you go should probably most depend on whether you need a lot of processor power at the NAS (virtual machines, transcoding, etc.) or just a pure file server. For home use, the 2550 is likely sufficient (I use the big brother). Finding inexpensive 16GB DDR3 ECC sticks is difficult for the C2000 series, however. I was lucky to get some used on eBay for 1/4 of retail.

 

[CraigD]

I am leaning 1 of 2 ways
Super Micro, microATX, with Xenon chip or MiniITX ASRock board.

SuperMicro:
board: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B018B7BMS2/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new
I like the built on SAS controller but I am not sure if I have to do anything special to make sure it doesn't use RAID. I assumed since it was on the FreeNAS mobo list, it would be an easy
cpu: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B015VPX05A/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all
memory: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7S67Y99043
Power Supply: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIABP956S3335
Drives: ???? I may have 8 NAS 2Tbyte drives laying around for a start. Plan to upgrade and auto expand to larger drives.
RaidZ2 or RaidZ3

ASRock:
Board: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157419
memory: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7S67BJ1731
same as above on rest.


It seems like the minimalist ASRock solution would be fine for what I need, and the cheapest.

Do you want to risk buying the ASRock board? They have a habit of dying...

You will have to flash the SAS controller (follow a guide)

The G4400 is capable, the G4560 has hyper-threading for almost the same price (The motherboard must have the newer BIOS)

I'm not sure how loud that PSU is

Have Fun

 

[Bozon]

Do you want to risk buying the ASRock board? They have a habit of dying...

You will have to flash the SAS controller (follow a guide)

The G4400 is capable, the G4560 has hyper-threading for almost the same price (The motherboard must have the newer BIOS)

I'm not sure how loud that PSU is

Have Fun

Thank You very much, for the information and help.

Great Food for thought. Based on Your CPU recommendation I went to NewEGG and put together a wish list of CPUs that came up when I searched for G4400.

https://secure.newegg.com/Wishlist/MyWishlistDetail?ID=31772091

Can you comment on the price/performance/compatibility of these CPUs, please? I'll try to start looking at it later today when I have time. If I go by the numbers alone it seemed like the highest number was a super deal. ( Intel Pentium Gold G5600 Coffee Lake Dual-Core 3.9 GHz LGA 1151 (300 Series) 54W BX80684G5600 Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 630 ) but it says series 300 boards only. I'll check the SuperMicro board CPU compatibility.

Also, I heard that the fault fo the ASRock boards failing was the Intel CPU and that had been sorted out on the later boards.

Also, do you have a link to the guide to flash the SAS controller, so I can be prepared.

I think you might be right on the noise of the PSU. I'll check into it, and see if I can find a quieter one or it isn't as loud as I would think.

Thanks again.

 

[Constantin]

All motherboard manufacturers have had issues with the c2xxx series due to Intels’ AVR54 bug. My board was replaced by ixSystems with no fuss. Any board manufactured after Feb 2017 should be ok, IIRC.

 

[Bozon]

Thank You very much, for the information and help.

Great Food for thought. Based on Your CPU recommendation I went to NewEGG and put together a wish list of CPUs that came up when I searched for G4400.

https://secure.newegg.com/Wishlist/MyWishlistDetail?ID=31772091

Can you comment on the price/performance/compatibility of these CPUs, please? I'll try to start looking at it later today when I have time. If I go by the numbers alone it seemed like the highest number was a super deal. ( Intel Pentium Gold G5600 Coffee Lake Dual-Core 3.9 GHz LGA 1151 (300 Series) 54W BX80684G5600 Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 630 ) but it says series 300 boards only. I'll check the SuperMicro board CPU compatibility.

Also, I heard that the fault fo the ASRock boards failing was the Intel CPU and that had been sorted out on the later boards.

Also, do you have a link to the guide to flash the SAS controller, so I can be prepared.

I think you might be right on the noise of the PSU. I'll check into it, and see if I can find a quieter one or it isn't as loud as I would think.

Thanks again.

First note:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1151 has nice graphs to help nubs like me determine compatibility.

It looks like the Series 3 can only work with Coffee Lake chips, and the above board is board is skylake ( C232 )
https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C236_C232/X11SSL-CF.cfm?parts=SHOW
https://ark.intel.com/products/90578/Intel-C232-Chipset

Revised CPU Wish List:
https://secure.newegg.com/Wishlist/MyWishlistDetail?ID=31772311

 

[Bozon]

More CPU FYI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaby_Lake
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)

 

[CraigD]

Thank You very much, for the information and help.

Great Food for thought. Based on Your CPU recommendation I went to NewEGG and put together a wish list of CPUs that came up when I searched for G4400.

https://secure.newegg.com/Wishlist/MyWishlistDetail?ID=31772091

Can you comment on the price/performance/compatibility of these CPUs, please? I'll try to start looking at it later today when I have time. If I go by the numbers alone it seemed like the highest number was a super deal. ( Intel Pentium Gold G5600 Coffee Lake Dual-Core 3.9 GHz LGA 1151 (300 Series) 54W BX80684G5600 Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 630 ) but it says series 300 boards only. I'll check the SuperMicro board CPU compatibility.

Also, I heard that the fault fo the ASRock boards failing was the Intel CPU and that had been sorted out on the later boards.

Also, do you have a link to the guide to flash the SAS controller, so I can be prepared.

I think you might be right on the noise of the PSU. I'll check into it, and see if I can find a quieter one or it isn't as loud as I would think.

Thanks again.

Today I would not buy the X10SL7-F, I would buy the newer X11SSM-F or the x11 board with the SAS controller. 32GB of RAM is a huge limiting factor of the x10 boards

You must get a motherboard and CPU that will work together 1150 CPUs fit 1150 boards. 1151 CPUs fit 1151 boards

Have Fun

 

[Constantin]

Unless, you get into transcoding, VMs, and the like, I doubt a more powerful CPU will do much beyond heat the room in a "simple" home environment. The only time I've ever seen my C2750 CPU operate under 100% load is resilvering. Normally, it's much lower.

As much as I lust after the beautiful D-1537-based flex-ATX board from Supermicro, I've come to the conclusion that I simply don't have enough disks here for that more powerful CPU to make a significant difference in my use case. If I doubled my disk drive quantity and added a VDEV, yep, that would make a big difference - and the board above would enable it via its SAS controller that has 16 lanes and several more m.2/SATA3 interfaces that a Cache drive / SLOG can use.

But with my single VDEV (8 drives in my case), there is simply no benefit to me.

 

[jgreco]

As much as I lust after the beautiful D-1537-based flex-ATX board from Supermicro, I've come to the conclusion that I simply don't have enough disks here for that more powerful CPU to make a significant difference in my use case. If I doubled my disk drive quantity and added a VDEV, yep, that would make a big difference - and the board above would enable it via its SAS controller that has 16 lanes and several more m.2/SATA3 interfaces that a Cache drive / SLOG can use.

I've been using those for lower power applications and am reasonably impressed with them. With the built-in dual 10G SFP+ and 16 port HBA, I only had to add a 9271CV raid controller and a second 10G card, in a Supermicro SC216A to make a hypervisor that had 8 bays of RAID datastore for the hypervisor and 16 bays of passthru disk for FreeNAS. If cost were no issue, this'd be one of my default choices.

 

[Bozon]

If cost were no issue, this'd be one of my default choices.

Cost isn't really an issue, except I have to explain it to my accountant wife, she skeptical of any large Computer boondoggles. I think I am going to go the very low in cost ASRock solutions.

https://secure.newegg.com/Wishlist/...89035&RandomID=157137120411619420181224174510

There are cheaper ways to go with used hardware different enclosures, etc. but this seems like a pretty good economical new system, with nice features. If I start getting into better boards, I start buying DDR4 and CPU's etc.